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	<title>Comments on: Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs</title>
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	<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/</link>
	<description>ill. humored.</description>
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		<title>By: Frank Drackman</title>
		<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/comment-page-1/#comment-754</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Drackman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Anesthesia Example is such Crap...99.999999999% of the reduction in anesthesia related deaths is due to widespread use of Capnography, the other .000000000000001% being the Oxygen interlock so you can&#039;t create a hypoxic mixture.  Wouldn&#039;t even need the EtCO2 if people would see the tube goin through the cords, I know, not always possible...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Anesthesia Example is such Crap&#8230;99.999999999% of the reduction in anesthesia related deaths is due to widespread use of Capnography, the other .000000000000001% being the Oxygen interlock so you can&#8217;t create a hypoxic mixture.  Wouldn&#8217;t even need the EtCO2 if people would see the tube goin through the cords, I know, not always possible&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dx</title>
		<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/comment-page-1/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>dx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duncancross.net/?p=1105#comment-749</guid>
		<description>@Dr. T - perhaps anaesthesiology and mammography are the two poles of a spectrum of standardization results? I don&#039;t know enough about mammography to say, but clearly the anaesthesiology community saw some benefit to standardization. 

I can defend our malpractice system only because it is the consequence of our  Constitutional right to use the courts to resolve disputes. I agree it&#039;s problematic, but not so much that it should be answered by the loss of our rights. If you have suggestions as to how to fix malpractice without making patients still more vulnerable, I am entirely open to those ideas. 

I&#039;m not sure what you&#039;re referring to by &quot;anecdote&quot;; I understood your line on MQSA as mostly anecdotal. I do think I&#039;m pretty good about showing data and evidence where appropriate - maybe more so than most med-bloggers. But I also think it useful to the discussion to show where my experience connects to the evidence, and how what has happened to me relates to what is happening to a lot of people. Nonetheless, I appreciate your feedback, and my best wishes to your child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dr. T &#8211; perhaps anaesthesiology and mammography are the two poles of a spectrum of standardization results? I don&#8217;t know enough about mammography to say, but clearly the anaesthesiology community saw some benefit to standardization. </p>
<p>I can defend our malpractice system only because it is the consequence of our  Constitutional right to use the courts to resolve disputes. I agree it&#8217;s problematic, but not so much that it should be answered by the loss of our rights. If you have suggestions as to how to fix malpractice without making patients still more vulnerable, I am entirely open to those ideas. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you&#8217;re referring to by &#8220;anecdote&#8221;; I understood your line on MQSA as mostly anecdotal. I do think I&#8217;m pretty good about showing data and evidence where appropriate &#8211; maybe more so than most med-bloggers. But I also think it useful to the discussion to show where my experience connects to the evidence, and how what has happened to me relates to what is happening to a lot of people. Nonetheless, I appreciate your feedback, and my best wishes to your child.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr T</title>
		<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/comment-page-1/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duncancross.net/?p=1105#comment-748</guid>
		<description>There were plenty of physicians involved in MQSA. My point is that if we want to see, first hand, what standardization does to health care, look no farther than the 1993 MQSA and what it has done to mammography. It&#039;s a wrecked field.

Insofar as the current malpractice system, it cannot be defended. The attorneys triage their work based on the potential for profit. They will not accept cases that do not offer them adequate financial rewards. This is in no way, and only randomly, associated with the patient&#039;s best interests or improvement in health care quality. By definition this is grossy inefficiant, and in actuality it is harmful to the system. I can think of ten better ways to address patient grievences and physician errors off the top of my head that are better directred at the issues.

Finally, anecdote never advances anyone&#039;s cause or adds to the weight of a conclusion, so what has happened to you or me (I have a child with a significant severe and chronic disorder similar to yours) cannot be adduced for the purpose of advancing the argument.

Thank you for answering, and I like this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were plenty of physicians involved in MQSA. My point is that if we want to see, first hand, what standardization does to health care, look no farther than the 1993 MQSA and what it has done to mammography. It&#8217;s a wrecked field.</p>
<p>Insofar as the current malpractice system, it cannot be defended. The attorneys triage their work based on the potential for profit. They will not accept cases that do not offer them adequate financial rewards. This is in no way, and only randomly, associated with the patient&#8217;s best interests or improvement in health care quality. By definition this is grossy inefficiant, and in actuality it is harmful to the system. I can think of ten better ways to address patient grievences and physician errors off the top of my head that are better directred at the issues.</p>
<p>Finally, anecdote never advances anyone&#8217;s cause or adds to the weight of a conclusion, so what has happened to you or me (I have a child with a significant severe and chronic disorder similar to yours) cannot be adduced for the purpose of advancing the argument.</p>
<p>Thank you for answering, and I like this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: dx</title>
		<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/comment-page-1/#comment-747</link>
		<dc:creator>dx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duncancross.net/?p=1105#comment-747</guid>
		<description>@Reality: Sorry for the mix-up! I don&#039;t know enough about ob/gyn to address your question specifically. I would be interested to know what Jill from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unnecesarean.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Unnecesaerean.com&lt;/a&gt;thinks; she has commented here before, so maybe I can lure her back. That said, I am convinced defensive medicine happens - the question is, to what extent is that a bad thing? The post I linked to &lt;a href=&quot;http://duncancross.net/2008/11/in-retort/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bad information&lt;/a&gt; discusses the best research I could find, which suggests defensive medicine is at most 9% and probably closer to 2% of health care costs. I just don&#039;t see how 2%-9% savings makes this the epicenter of health care reform.  [I edited this para after posting it.]

@Dr. T: I am relying on the authority of Pat. S, a physician, and Health Beat, who wrote and published the post I quoted (link now fixed). My argument is no different from Pat. S&#039;s, and there has been a vigorous discussion in his comments section that you might want to join.

It&#039;s not quite clear how your MQSA tangent pertains, since the quoted passage is about standards written by doctors. I will say that if written standards &quot;don&#039;t work&quot;, then the courts are still the best tool we have to resolve malpractice claims on a case-by-case basis, and we patients must rely on lawyers to that end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Reality: Sorry for the mix-up! I don&#8217;t know enough about ob/gyn to address your question specifically. I would be interested to know what Jill from <a href="http://www.unnecesarean.com/" rel="nofollow">Unnecesaerean.com</a>thinks; she has commented here before, so maybe I can lure her back. That said, I am convinced defensive medicine happens &#8211; the question is, to what extent is that a bad thing? The post I linked to <a href="http://duncancross.net/2008/11/in-retort/" rel="nofollow">bad information</a> discusses the best research I could find, which suggests defensive medicine is at most 9% and probably closer to 2% of health care costs. I just don&#8217;t see how 2%-9% savings makes this the epicenter of health care reform.  [I edited this para after posting it.]</p>
<p>@Dr. T: I am relying on the authority of Pat. S, a physician, and Health Beat, who wrote and published the post I quoted (link now fixed). My argument is no different from Pat. S&#8217;s, and there has been a vigorous discussion in his comments section that you might want to join.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not quite clear how your MQSA tangent pertains, since the quoted passage is about standards written by doctors. I will say that if written standards &#8220;don&#8217;t work&#8221;, then the courts are still the best tool we have to resolve malpractice claims on a case-by-case basis, and we patients must rely on lawyers to that end.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. T.</title>
		<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/comment-page-1/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duncancross.net/?p=1105#comment-746</guid>
		<description>As it turns out, anesthesiology is well-suited to standardization. There are x number of drugs that can be administered to a person of y weight with a few variable multiplicands yielding a graph that one can pin on the wall as set standards. Much of medicine is not so simple.

I assume you know this. Otherwise, why would you be writing so authoritatively?

If you want an egregious example of how setting down written standards and requirements don&#039;t work -- and can actually do great irreversible harm -- why don&#039;t you address thew much greater example of MQSA (Mammography Quality Standards Act) in which the federal government wrote to rules and standards and backed them with a law.

Do you think medical liability became less of an issue in mammography?

Do you think that mammograms find mor cancers after MQSA than before the law?

Do you think mammography is more available to women now than before MQSA?

http://tedstumor.blogspot.com/2009/03/mqsa-mussolini-and-mammography.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As it turns out, anesthesiology is well-suited to standardization. There are x number of drugs that can be administered to a person of y weight with a few variable multiplicands yielding a graph that one can pin on the wall as set standards. Much of medicine is not so simple.</p>
<p>I assume you know this. Otherwise, why would you be writing so authoritatively?</p>
<p>If you want an egregious example of how setting down written standards and requirements don&#8217;t work &#8212; and can actually do great irreversible harm &#8212; why don&#8217;t you address thew much greater example of MQSA (Mammography Quality Standards Act) in which the federal government wrote to rules and standards and backed them with a law.</p>
<p>Do you think medical liability became less of an issue in mammography?</p>
<p>Do you think that mammograms find mor cancers after MQSA than before the law?</p>
<p>Do you think mammography is more available to women now than before MQSA?</p>
<p><a href="http://tedstumor.blogspot.com/2009/03/mqsa-mussolini-and-mammography.html" rel="nofollow">http://tedstumor.blogspot.com/2009/03/mqsa-mussolini-and-mammography.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Reality Rounds</title>
		<link>http://duncancross.net/2009/03/doctors-lawyers-indian-chiefs/comment-page-1/#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>Reality Rounds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 03:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duncancross.net/?p=1105#comment-725</guid>
		<description>Working in hospitals for twenty years, I know first hand that there needs to be some sort of malpractice reform.  Like it or not, defensive medicine is performed because of lawsuits, especially in Obstetrics.  (BTW, I am a nurse, not a physician.  You outed me as a doctor in one of my previous comments :).  We are mandated to by our insurance carriers to do crazy things like send cord blood gases on every delivery and save every placenta for pathology.  We do these things to defend against allegations of cerebral palsy caused during the birthing process.  Also, one in three woman in American undergoes a cesarean section in order to &quot;protect&quot; the fetus.  Studies have shown that even with this increase in C/S, there has been no change in the morbidity or mortality of infants in the US.  Yet, the failure to perform a C/S is one of the leading causes of lawsuits in OB.  How do you reconcile this?  The study and process review for anesthesiologists is remarkable, and should be replicated in other fields.  Nothing would make me happier than to support a laboring patient without the threat of her lawyer hanging over my head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Working in hospitals for twenty years, I know first hand that there needs to be some sort of malpractice reform.  Like it or not, defensive medicine is performed because of lawsuits, especially in Obstetrics.  (BTW, I am a nurse, not a physician.  You outed me as a doctor in one of my previous comments <img src='http://duncancross.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  We are mandated to by our insurance carriers to do crazy things like send cord blood gases on every delivery and save every placenta for pathology.  We do these things to defend against allegations of cerebral palsy caused during the birthing process.  Also, one in three woman in American undergoes a cesarean section in order to &#8220;protect&#8221; the fetus.  Studies have shown that even with this increase in C/S, there has been no change in the morbidity or mortality of infants in the US.  Yet, the failure to perform a C/S is one of the leading causes of lawsuits in OB.  How do you reconcile this?  The study and process review for anesthesiologists is remarkable, and should be replicated in other fields.  Nothing would make me happier than to support a laboring patient without the threat of her lawyer hanging over my head.</p>
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